Ep. 267: Making Life Rich

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the indoubt podcast, where we explore the challenging topics that young adults often face. Each week, we talk with guests who help answer questions of faith, life, and culture, connecting them to our daily experiences, and God’s word. For more info on indoubt, visit indoubt.ca or indoubt.com.

Ben Lowell:

Welcome to the indoubt podcast, where we explore some of the challenging topics of life, faith, and culture that we find ourselves facing in an ever-changing contemporary world. And each week we talk with authors and theologians, pastors, experts that help us connect with daily experience and challenges with our faith, and an understanding of the Bible. Well, welcome. This is Ben Lowell, and I’m your guest host, as Isaac and Daniel can’t be with us this week, and it’s really their loss, because we’re speaking with Phil Callaway today: author, speaker, host of Laugh Again, and full disclosure here, Phil and I share not only a ministry together, but we’re good friends. So I’m excited about the opportunity to be sharing this time with Phil today. Welcome, Phil.

Phil Callaway:

Fantastic to be with you, Ben.

Ben Lowell:

Great stuff. You know, the primary reason we’re here today, is to chat about a new booklet that Laugh Again has released, authored by yourself, of course, and it’s called Five Steps to Making Life Rich. Now I got to start out by asking you, first of all, just to give some context to who you are, and what you value. Maybe you could share with us, maybe what’s your life verse and why?

Phil Callaway:

Ah, life verse. I think because of some difficult valleys that we have been through in life, the one that’s usually prominently displayed on the fridge and in my memory, I hope I can remember this now that I’ve said I’ve memorized it, but it’s Romans 15:13, and it simply says this, “May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope, by the power of the Holy Spirit.” And that I’m telling you, sometimes at night, even recently, just some things going on in our life, and you think, “Wow, without that hope, I have no idea where I would be. And we have a God who is a God that fills us with hope.” So here’s my, I guess, life verse.

Ben Lowell:

Well, that’s fantastic. It really does fit into what you’re all about, and what the ministry of Laugh Again is, and all the books you’ve written. And I don’t know what it is, what’s it now like 29, 30 books?

Phil Callaway:

Yeah, I think it’s still under 30. I’m supposed to do a 30th one at some point, but we shall see if that ever happens.

Ben Lowell:

Well, that’s impressive, because I have a hard enough time just sort of filling in an information sheet or a cue card or something like that. I don’t know how you do it, but that’s pretty incredible. And I know they’ve touched a lot of people. Tell me a little bit, what was the first book that’s a bestselling book, that you’ve had?

Phil Callaway:

The first book that I wrote was called Honey, I Dumped the Kids, and that was way back a hundred years ago, when Disney had a movie out, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. And I had been writing a column on family issues, because I was a young dad in my twenties, wondering what in the world I was doing with three kids suddenly in three years. The anesthetic from the first birth was still working for the third. It was just crazy. And I was asked to write this column for Servant magazine and I said, “I can’t do this.” I said to my wife, “Look at me, I’m an imperfect dad. I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m making this up as I go.” And she said, “Just tell stories and tell us there’s hope.” So that’s sort of what I did. And that book that, it’s funny to reflect on some of those days when I had I called them, or they called me, or something from Oregon, from the publisher, Harvest House in those days.

Phil Callaway:

And they said, “Yeah, hey, your book’s doing well.” And I said, “Well, how many has it sold?” And they gave me this figure, and I said, ‘Well, is that good?” And the lady just started to laugh. And she said, ‘That’s unbelievable.” So God, despite all my failures and shortcomings, somehow is able to use my gift of humor, I guess, the ability to see things maybe in the midst of tragedy even, to see things that we can turn into a bit of a smile, can help get us through. So, yeah. Anyway, to answer your question. That was Honey, I Dumped the Kids, and Ben, have you even read 30 books?

Ben Lowell:

Just yours, Phil. I only read Phil Callaway books, exclusively. So until you write another one… Actually I’m reading a book now, and I’ve only just started it. It’s called Jesus and John Wayne. I don’t know if you’ve read that book or seen that book, I don’t know. But it’s quite interesting. I haven’t got far enough into it to say that I would recommend it, but it’s quite an interesting book, talking about evangelical culture in North America.

Phil Callaway:

Right. Yeah. I haven’t read it, but I’ve been told to, so I will. I, just to show you that I’m a Christian, I have a Bible by my bed, and I’m reading that, going through the gospels over and over actually this year. I read through the Bible last year, and thought, “I am going to read the gospels just one after another, and then I’m going to go back.” So I’m doing this about every 25 days, reading the gospels, and it’s been tremendous. And right beside my Bible is a little book, well, it’s a big book by Jerry Seinfeld called, Is this Anything? Which is what comedians do, you know? I talked to a friend and I said, “Hey, is this something here? If I were to talk about how we can scale fish or whatever it is, right?” So anyway, that’s a bit of an eclectic quote.

Ben Lowell:

That’s quite a contrast, isn’t it? The Bible and Jerry Seinfeld.

Phil Callaway:

You think so?

Ben Lowell:

I don’t think we have to go into that deeply, but maybe speaks a little bit more into your mind and your personality.

Phil Callaway:

I’m a huge admirer of those who can, and for the most part, Jerry does this, is keep things clean and intensely funny, the ordinary things of life. Looking at milk in the fridge and the expiration date and being able to do about three minutes on that. It’s a tremendous gift. I think often with comedians that I see who are just kind of making a shipwreck of things, I think, “Man, God gave you a gift. I wish you’d use it, at least, at the very least to cheer people up, in times like these.” And I know they sometimes do, but I was just on a talk show in Las Vegas. An atheist was telling me what makes him laugh, and it was just crude stuff. That’s all that makes him laugh. And he was mocking what I was doing. But I’ve found that the good humor, like we use on Laugh Again, has the power to motivate and cheer and encourage. And that’s what I’m here for. I think you’d feel very, very empty leaving a building, having made people laugh about horrific stuff.

Ben Lowell:

Yeah. You know, one of the things I admire about you, about the mission of Laugh Again is, is you do make people laugh. You make people laugh through story, but there’s always this what I like to call this “hammock of biblical truth” underneath, that people can’t go away from seeing you live or listening to you on radio, or watching you on Laugh Again TV, and not get the sense that there’s a bigger purpose here. There’s more to what you’re doing, other than just simply a chuckle here or there. And that’s what Laugh Again is about. Tell me about that. Why Laugh Again? What’s the basis for it, why do you do it?

Phil Callaway:

Well? I think just bottom line, I want to cheer people up. I want people to say in the midst of whatever they’re going through, that God is bigger than this situation. So I got into comedy to cheer up my mother, who was incredibly depressed, battling this in an era when they didn’t even, the D word, they never used it. It was, my mom was sick. That was yet. And so I found, I remember saying to my mom, “I want to grow up and be a comedian.” And she looked at me and said, “Well, you can’t do both.” You know, you can’t grow up and be a comedian. And she’s right. You know, every day I get to go looking for things that make me laugh, and I try to pass them on to others.

Phil Callaway:

So what I’m trying to do, I think, is, and you and I talked about this when we first began praying about Laugh Again. It’s just that we want to do something that people can hear on the radio in Canada, and it’s in other countries as well. But, though they maybe don’t have this foundation of faith in Christ, will enjoy it, and then get it, that God loves them, that He is not who they think He is, that we have a loving father who redeems us, and gives us purpose and hope in life. So I think that’s what we’ve been trying to do. But you know, I told you about mom and depression. What we’ve discovered, is that people, I’m telling you, every day, like this morning, an hour ago, another note from somebody who is really, really down and discouraged, and is just… They just wrote me about the video that went up.

Phil Callaway:

I don’t even know which one it was. I think it was about my 10th-grade English teacher telling me, “You have a gift in the area of communication.” Every other teacher seemed to want to strangle me. And he saw something good, which changed my life. It just frankly did. So she was very encouraged by this, and she told me this is a very tough time in her life. And I hear this every day, I hear this over and over. So if I could spend the rest of my life just speaking to discouraged people, and trying to cheer them up with the hope of the gospel, I mean, that’s our hope. Our hope isn’t laughter. It isn’t comedy. It’s the hope that Jesus Christ has given us, by making us to be at peace with God, through his finished work on the cross. So I do want that to always come through in whatever we do, but there are times when we just need a good laugh, and I want to provide that as well.

Ben Lowell:

That’s fantastic. You know, I think that was sort of the purpose in not only about Laugh Again, but this booklet Five Steps to Making Life Rich. And through it you’ve provided five principles, or five insights for us, that I think cross boundaries of demographics and everything else. Because we’re living in an age right now with so much uncertainty, and whether you’re a young child, and I have grandkids, you have grandkids. And I was talking to my son the other day, who’s in his early thirties. And he was saying, “Dad it’s such a different age right, now because my kids only know so few people. They’re not involved in community right now.” And, I got to wonder, how is that going to impact them down the road, or what are going to be the adjustments when things open up in this COVID world?

Ben Lowell:

And then my mother, who’s in her just, I think she’ll be turning 90 this year. And you know, she’s been really isolated. I praise the Lord, because my sister has been able to see her, but she’s isolated. So we’re living in a world right now where everybody, regardless of your background or your age or whatever, social economic, we’re all struggling. We’re all struggling to sort of keep a grip on things. And so a ministry like this and a book like this, I think, really presents a timely perspective of hope. So tell me a little bit about some of the principles that come out of this booklet, Five Steps to Making Life Rich.

Phil Callaway:

For sure. Ben, if I could just preface it by saying I’m with you, I’m with your kids. I I’m with my kids, who are all in their early thirties, and I’m kind of, I’m COVID cranky right now, forgive me. But I’m ready to get back to doing what I normally do. We haven’t been hardly on an airplane in the last year. So you go from a hundred to zero in three days. That’s kind of what’s happened, as you know. Over a hundred speaking events, well past that, are gone for me. And if this is a help to someone, I got to say, we are right now… I was reading a psychologist just yesterday who saying, “We are languishing.” That was his term for it. You know, we have no idea what this is going to look like when we come out of it.

Phil Callaway:

Here’s what I absolutely am certain of. We have a mental health crisis, big time, on our hands. And I think this booklet can be a huge help to listeners who are saying, “Yeah, I need something right now to pick me up.” Because I mean, I don’t know if you ever complain, but I have been, more than normal. I am not normally at grouchy guy, but my wife woke up grumpy this morning. Here I am. I’m grumpy. I heard a story about this Hungarian guy who went to see his rabbi, and he said, “Life is unbearable. There are nine of us living in one room. What can I do?”T” And the rabbi answered, take your goat into the room with you, and then come back in week. And the guy said, “Huh?” And the rabbi said, “Yeah, that’s absolutely what you got to do. Take your goat into your room, and then come back and see me in a week.”

Phil Callaway:

So the guy returned a week later, and he was way worse. He was absolutely frazzled. He said, “We can’t stand it. The goat is filthy. It’s stinks. What can I do?” And the rabbi said, “Well, go home, let the goat out. And then come back in a week.” And a week later, the guy returned, smiling. And he says, “Ah,” he says, “Life is beautiful. We enjoy every minute of it now there’s no goat. You know, only the nine of us in one room.”

Phil Callaway:

And I think perspective makes all the difference, because we know the verse says, “I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth. In everything, give thanks. This is God’s will for us in Christ Jesus.” But I think we probably right now don’t need people coming into our face and just pointing their finger at us and saying, “Well, you just need to be thankful.” But man, does it make a difference if we really do that in the midst of all of this stuff. So that’s my long preface Ben, to what was your question?

Ben Lowell:

I forget now. I forget now.

Phil Callaway:

You forget. See, this is the great thing about having two grandpas on.

Ben Lowell:

There you go.

Phil Callaway:

Yeah. Five steps. You were wondering basically what, I don’t know if I should give those away, but why not?

Ben Lowell:

Well, give a couple of them away, too. Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this, just to start it out, because I was really interested. One of the things I find really fascinating, is sometimes we can hear quotes from people, and we can think to ourselves, “Aw, that’s such a great quote for today.” And then find out actually that it’s a quote from somebody that lived 400 years ago. Now, I’m not suggesting that Tozer is 400 years old, but I love this quote you have in Step Three, and maybe you can help pan that out a little, or flesh it out a little bit for us, because it says, “We must show a new generation of nervous, almost frantic people that speed and noise are evidence of weakness, not strength.”

Phil Callaway:

Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that good? That’s in the third section in this booklet, which is “rich people know the speed limit,” and I write a little of my own burnout, doing so much, and I think giving my kids, wanting to give my kids the things that I never had growing up below the poverty line. And what I discovered in the end, was that what my kids really wanted was me. Tozer, I think, maybe if he were alive right now, writing that quote would have added that fear fits into that picture. We must show them that fear is not an admirable trait. But we are being taught by turning on the news, and the anchor bids us a good evening, and spends an entire hour telling us why it isn’t. Or we’re watching YouTube, we’re seeing posts on Facebook that just add to more and more fear, when in the midst of this time, I think we need to find something that relieves that stress, where we say, “I am not going to start the day with the news. I am not going to start the day with my phone.”

Phil Callaway:

I think this is a huge step to personal peace, where we say, “What I’m going to do is I’m, upon opening my eyes, I am going to give thanks to God for a few things.” Maybe that is just, it’s water from a tap. I miss being in other countries, Ben, like we were going to be in during this time, where we meet people who have almost nothing. And you realize, “I need to give thanks to God when I wake up, that I woke up in a bed. That there is a coffee machine, and I can smell it from here. I need to give thanks that I have a roof over my head, and that I’m going to have breakfast this morning.” Start there.

Phil Callaway:

But also, before you allow yourself to get into the routine of your day, and is anything routine right now? I don’t know. Would you pick up the Bible, and just read it as far as you need to, to get to some comfort or a challenge. Start there. And I’ve discovered in doing that during these COVID cranky days that I’m in, it makes a tremendous difference in starting my day right. So that was “rich people know the speed limit.” Man. We are on fast forward in our world, and we need to be able to push pause, and play. As I say that, I realize that even COVID has just seemed to make so many things obsolete, because some of us are saying, “Yeah, I’d like to be on fast-forward again. I don’t have a job.”

Phil Callaway:

And maybe that’s where you are, but don’t miss this time. Don’t miss these days of being able to really deepen your relationship with Jesus, and focus on things that will last in the end, rather than getting so uptight and so stressed out. One of the letters that I got, Ben, was from a guy when I wrote the book, Making Life Rich Without Any Money, a guy near Calgary, who at that time he told me, he said, “I am one of the highest paid guys in the city.” He said, “I came home to my ranch south of Calgary, near High River. And he said, “I smiled. I pulled up in front of my barn that is absolutely jam packed with antique cars, and some pretty hot new ones.” And he went into his house, and there was a note on the table, and it just was from his wife, and it said, “We’re gone. Please don’t try to find us.”

Phil Callaway:

And there was no bye or anything. And he knew their marriage had been in shambles for years. His daughters hardly saw him or cared about him. And so many times I have received responses like that from this. And one of the Five Steps in here is to “Know where the buck stops.” Rich people know where the buck stops, and they realize that money cannot buy them relationships. And it makes a tremendous difference when you start there. And I want young people today to pick this up, and see that these are foundational steps to a truly rich life. And what a difference. So many have said, “If only I would have had this when I got married. If only I would have had this when I was younger, I think it would have made a tremendous difference in my life.”

Ben Lowell:

Wow. That’s fantastic. Listen, I want to get your permission for a second. Can I get personal for a second?

Phil Callaway:

No.

Ben Lowell:

No.

Phil Callaway:

Sure.

Ben Lowell:

I want to ask you an interesting, for some reason it just came to my mind right now, because I want people to understand what they hear when they listen to you or watch you on Laugh Again TV, or read in any of your many, many books, is there’s just a real authenticity to who you are. So I want to ask you this question. Over this last year, what have you discovered the worst about you, and the best about you?

Phil Callaway:

Oh, good question. I would say the worst would be my inability to see the long-term at this point, and wondering if and when we come through it, what things are going to look like for me? So it would be, I suppose, a lack of trust, because I know the theology of these things, that God is not surprised, that God will be with us. But I get my focus off of him, and I start to complain, and I think beneath all of that is just this lack of trust. So I don’t know, does that?

Ben Lowell:

Sure.

Phil Callaway:

That’s probably not vulnerable enough. I mean, I like-

Ben Lowell:

Well, no, I think that’s great, because I think a lot of us, as Christians, in our isolation, will think and behave in such ways that we would not behave when we are in public when it comes to this stuff. It’s like I have feelings, I have thoughts. I have impressions about the things that are going on, and the decisions that are being made. But sometimes I have to edit those thoughts and perspectives, because they’re not constructive. They can be destructive to other people as well. And you know, I think that’s one of the things that I’ve learned about myself, is I have to learn a little bit better how to edit myself.

Ben Lowell:

I’ve got this thing on my computer screen now that says, “Assume you are wrong.” And for me, that’s a great way to start any conversation now, because I want to tell people how much I feel about something, or my perspective on something, rather than listen. And I think that’s one of the things over this last year, not just through COVID, but through all the issues of race and things of that nature. I hear this overwhelming tone that people say, “You know what? I just want to be heard. I just want to be listened to. If people would just hear me out, rather than seemingly to tell me everything they know about something.” Okay. So besides that, what’s one of the best things you’ve learned about yourself?

Phil Callaway:

Oh man. I would say one of the best things about me is my marriage. We’ve been married for 38 years. We met when we were 15, and Ramona just absolutely loves me. And it’s the most stunning thing on the planet, that a woman who has seen me at my worst could love me that much, and has for all these years. So we, as you know, Ben, you get during COVID, you’re spending an inordinate amount of time together as a couple, and we haven’t minded at all. We just, we love that. That’s, I suppose, the best thing about me. I’m intrigued by what you were talking about, related to listening, and in the midst of COVID. And I think you’re so right. If we could come, we as believers in Jesus, from the standpoint of humility to people where we say, “You know, I mean, how real do I get here?”

Phil Callaway:

We have somebody in our lives who basically goes into a situation, whether that’s in the store or the post office or whatever, and makes her views known, so that everybody standing there hears. And I’m just embarrassed. I don’t want to be in the room. As followers of Christ, we come humbly, forgiven people, aware of God’s grace. And so, our default position can never be a position of, “Well I’m right. And you need to listen to me at all times.” We need to think, “So can I learn from this person who does not agree with me?” I think that would be a good thing. You know, “Lord, give me the grace and strength and the wisdom to learn these things.” Rich people are people people, is one of these five steps. And in it, I talk about listening.

Phil Callaway:

The secret, that’s one of the greatest secrets to friendship. Two great talkers won’t walk far together. You have to, at some point, be interested, intensely interested in other people. And I think during COVID, for listeners, this might be a helpful little tip, but to phone somebody else, to phone somebody that maybe you haven’t talked to, even in this whole thing, but somebody that you know you could encourage, and just ask them how you’re doing, and start with a compliment. “I’ve always appreciated you.” You can’t believe what that will do. The first 30 seconds in a conversation is the most important in keeping that conversation going, and just taking an interest.

Phil Callaway:

I heard about a girl who was voted “most likely to succeed” in her high school class. And they asked her why. And she said, “I listen.” And then she said this, “My dad taught me when I was a little girl, that everyone on earth is at least just a little bit lonely. And I’ve never forgotten that.” And I thought, “Yeah, we are. We are relational people.” And so I hope this booklet goes a long way in helping people strengthen themselves in that area. But being able to listen is certainly a huge part of it.

Ben Lowell:

Fantastic. So that leads me to another question. I guess I’m wondering, what would you suggest are some of the tips to survive a pandemic kind of thing. But I’m talking about, I guess specifically about Christian people. What are some survival tips that you have maybe experienced, and then might pass on to others?

Phil Callaway:

Well, I would start by saying, we have been programmed, “stay safe.” And please don’t get me wrong when I say this, there is nothing safe about this planet. Everybody that’s landed here has died. That is just simply the way it is. At some point, we’re going to cash in our chips. So next time you hear the term, “stay safe,” say, “I am going to stay thankful. I’m going to stay thankful.” I think that is the biggest and best thing we can do during this time, is be known as grateful people. In your relationships with non-believers, this can be one of the greatest magnets to the kingdom of God, is to see gratitude in action. So I would say, that for me is, is the biggest secret to being sane right now. My family deals with depression.

Phil Callaway:

This is a difficult time. I’m hearing from people whose children have taken their lives during this time. It just makes me want to weep. So somehow, we have to do things that will be good medicine during a time of mental health difficulties. And the first major vitamins for me has been gratitude. Ben, I think when I was speaking somewhere, and you heard me tell this story, but it was of a Sacramento, California event, where they had oversold it by 1500 seats. This was a Women of Faith event, and that’s a wee bit of a problem for organizers. So they began to ask volunteers to phone all of these ladies coming, and apologize to them. But one hour into that conference, they were ticked off, and they were writing notes. They began to arrive complaining. “My neck is sore from looking so sharply up at the stage. The chairs are too narrow. My buns get wedged.” And it was not good.

Phil Callaway:

And so they asked the next speaker if she would just address the problem, and apologize once again for the inconvenience of this thing. And boy, if COVID is anything it’s inconvenient, I’ll tell you. At the very best it is. She said, “Sure.” She was wheeled onto the platform in her wheelchair. At 16 years of age, she was paralyzed in a diving accident. I’ve been able to spend time with her on a couple of occasions. Joni Eareckson Tata said this to the audience in front of her thousands of women. She said, “I understand some of you aren’t comfortable sitting in the seats you’re sitting in right now. Neither am I. And I’ve been in mine for more than 40 years.” And she smiled her beautiful smile. And she said, “I have thousands of friends who would give anything to sit where you are sitting, if just for tonight.”

Phil Callaway:

I think we can start there, by realizing that there are people in this world, like people in Brazil, who have it far worse than we do. I have friends in the Philippines, whose teenagers have not been able to go out of their yard, out of their yard for a year plus. Unbelievable. So let’s start there, though it’s very, very tough. And whenever you can do something that will build you up, I’m talking about scripture, I’m talking about listening to Laugh Again. These things can make a tremendous difference on our focus. Like the guy visiting his rabbi, and finally coming to the place of going, ‘Wow, there are only nine of us in one single room. We don’t have a goat in here anymore.” So if you need a goat, we’ll send you one, won’t we Ben? We’ll be sending out goats?

Ben Lowell:

Yeah. We’ll be sending you a goat, free gift. No, that’s great, Phil, because I think you’re right. I think that sense of gratitude, that sense of perspective and, Joni Eareckson Tata is a perfect example of being a woman, who early, early in her life became a quadriplegic. And I can just see… As you describe it, I can just see her sitting on that stage in her wheelchair, and just smiling and looking out on all those people complaining because life is a little bit inconvenient. And then all of a sudden looking up and hearing your words and saying, “Now there’s perspective.” And I think that’s sometimes what we have to glean, is some perspective.

Phil Callaway:

I think we also, Ben, that’s great. I think we have to go looking for that perspective if we’re going to find it. We’re going to… Okay, you know a little bit about me, the frustrations that we’ve discussed on the phone over this thing, and losing all these speaking engagements, and whatever else, right. And I’m thinking, “I want to do something for God during this time, something big. And here I am, I can’t even get 300 people in front of me in an audience, and oh poor me.” And during this time, God hit us with five grandkids, three of them adopted. And today I got to tell you, Ben, that Andrea and Maya, all the paperwork is done. We are celebrating this, because their mother was killed tragically during COVID, the very outset of it.

Phil Callaway:

And our kids were asked, “Will you take these two kids? They’re five and they’re four.” And they called us to see, “What would you do?” I said, “Well, I’m going to have to take them if you don’t. And I’m 112. So I’d forget where I put them most of the time.” But I find myself on FaceTime with these grandkids, both of them, they knew nothing of Jesus, zero. And during COVID, both of them have come to love Jesus.

Phil Callaway:

Andre, I was reading to him Pinocchio. With FaceTime, you can put the picture down so they can see the pictures, and you can read. He’s six. He says, “Grandpa.” He says, “Is Pinocchio a Bible story?” Well, he wouldn’t know whether it was or not. And it has some good biblical truths in it, for sure. And I said, “No, Andre.” He said, “Why are you reading Pinocchio? Tell me about the Bible.” And suddenly, we find ourselves memorizing scripture together. And they’re teaching me, they are teaching me that I have my idea of what’s big. What’s big right now is that I can take the next right step. And I’m faithful. And I think my definition of big stuff is starting to change, and we just need to be faithful, right today.

Ben Lowell:

Yeah. Well, Phil, thanks so much. I think through this last half hour, we’ve been able to maybe share some of our own personal experiences of this last year, but hopefully provide a little bit of hope and acknowledgement that in the end, if we can just get some perspective on what’s most important. And of course, what’s most important is our daily walk with the Lord. In the end of the booklet, it says this, “The truly rich find no lasting pleasure in that which fades away, but in bringing hope to others in setting their sights on eternity.”, And if that could be a challenge or a charge to anybody listening today, is bringing hope to others. I find that if you take your eyes off your own concerns, your own worries, your own burdens, and you place your eyes on what you can do to bring hope into the lives of others, some of your own burdens sort of get washed away.

Ben Lowell:

So I’m grateful for your booklet. I have to say that we’re making the Five Steps to Making Life Rich available for free during the month of May for all of our Laugh Again listeners or viewers, or whatever the case might be. And so we want you to have a copy of this booklet, that I think will offer you some hope, and will also perhaps pass it onto somebody else who may be discouraged this time. But thanks again, Phil, fantastic as usual, we really appreciate having you around, and appreciate your friendship, and keep up the good work, would you?

Phil Callaway:

And you too, Ben. And can I get one of those books for free?

Ben Lowell:

No, Phil, they’ll cost you $7.99.

Phil Callaway:

Oh, no, come on.

Ben Lowell:

All right.

Phil Callaway:

Great to be with you. You’re just the best, man.

Ben Lowell:

Thanks again, folks. And thanks for listening to indoubt. And I look forward to seeing you again next week as well. God Bless.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for listening. If you want to hear more, subscribe on iTunes or Spotify, or visit us online at indoubt.ca or indoubt.com. We’re also on social media, so make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Isaac:

Hey, this is Isaac, one of the hosts of indoubt, a ministry of Good News Global Media. Is it possible that being a Christian young person could be any more complicated than it is today? How do we make right choices and decisions when so many opinions around us seem contrary to what it means to live for Christ? At indoubt, we hope to help make sense, biblical sense, of those difficult choices, decisions, and the complexity of faith, life, and culture in 2021. So join us every week for another challenging conversation in our response as God’s people. For everything indoubt, visit indoubt.com. And if you’d like to help us continue to offer this program, you can make a gift of any amount at indoubt.com or by calling 1-844-663-2424.